Posts by Doug Mason

14

JWs... You are not unique! take a look at this. My research

by Aussie Oz in

in my research i have decided to go waaaay back.

so, one of the first things i did was look at the beginnings with regard to charles taze russell.. while this may be old news to many, this is indeed new to me.

and i want to tell this to the jws that are no doubt on here too.. you are an adventist sect.. without posting the expanded (very long) version of my research, i will post the basics that lead me to this conclusion.. how unique are jehovahs witnesses?

Doug Mason

There were "first-day Adventists"; likely still are

Doug

11

Chapter 3 of "What does the Bible Really Teach?"

by Doug Mason in

i do not know if this is of use to anyone, but i thought i would share it anyway.. i prepared a personal analysis of chapter 3 from the wts book, what does the bible really teach?, and i have made it available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/bible_teach__chapter_3.pdf .

in the first part, i made notes against scans of each page.. following those pages, i insert the words of each scripture being cited, and at times i include verses from the immediate context.

Doug Mason

FuzzyPaul,

I was sitting out the back after doing some weeding in the garden, and another thought struck me. Yes, I know, probably the effect of too much sun on my top paddock. Anyway, I thought the following:

These writers were answering critics who doubted that the LORD would select a heathen king to restore his city, temple, nation and land. So the writers told those critics that the LORD was entitled to do whatever he wished. He was the only True God and it was he alone who made everything.

Therefore, since the LORD did not intend the earth to be empty, it was his right to use Cyrus to restore Judah.

BTW. The WTS – quite incorrectly – considers that the promised land of Judah WAS emptied by Nebuchadnezzar, so they defeat their own reasoning that the LORD could not at any time leave the earth empty for a while.

Doug

11

Chapter 3 of "What does the Bible Really Teach?"

by Doug Mason in

i do not know if this is of use to anyone, but i thought i would share it anyway.. i prepared a personal analysis of chapter 3 from the wts book, what does the bible really teach?, and i have made it available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/bible_teach__chapter_3.pdf .

in the first part, i made notes against scans of each page.. following those pages, i insert the words of each scripture being cited, and at times i include verses from the immediate context.

Doug Mason

FuzzyPaul,

Your post #102 forced me to take a more intensive look at Isaiah 45:18, and from that it is my belief that by "earth" the writer(s) were referring to the creation, not to the land of Israel. The following is the reasoning I arrived at:

----------------

In the context, which starts at Isaiah 44:24, the LORD repeatedly makes two claims. His first claim is that he is the “only God”, with “no other”. His second claim is that he alone was the one who made the “heavens”, “earth”, “light”, “darkness”, and the “starry host”.

These claims gave the LORD the absolute right to anoint Cyrus to restore Jerusalem, the cities and the land. This is a clear reference to the Babylonian Captivity experienced by Judah, and the chapter appears to be written at the time as a rebuttal to people who were asking why a heathen king should be appointed by the LORD to restore the land that he had given them.

These two claims of “only God” and “only Creator” come together at verse 18, where the claim as Creator of the “heavens” and of the “earth” interrupts the introductory statement which, without that hiatus, says: “This is what the LORD says, he says: ‘I am the LORD and there is no other. … “

The interloping claim not only continues the theme of Creator, it also juxtaposes “heavens” with “earth”, saying: "he who created the heavens, … he who fashioned and made the earth”.

I thus believe that Isaiah 45:18 does indeed refer to the whole world as understood by the Hebrew writers of the 6th century BCE.

-----------------

I am the LORD , who has made all things , who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself … I am the LORD , and there is no other; apart from me there is no God . … there is none besides me . I am the LORD , and there is no other . I form the light and create darkness , I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD , do all these things. “You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the LORD , have created it . …

“ Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker … Does the clay say to the potter … Woe to him who says to his father … do you question me … or give me orders ? … It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts . … For this is what the LORD says — he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited — he says: “I am the LORD , and there is no other . … T here is no God apart from me , a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me . (Isaiah 44:24; 45:5-12, 18, 21)

39

Tell me why MY VIEW of Christianity is wrong

by Terry in

i sometimes think the standard christian view of things is this.. mankind, like the people in new orleans after hurricane katrina, are stranded waiting on aid and god flys over and sees them on the roof waving and holding up signs, but, he can't really do as much as he would like to.. he has some stopgap aid here and there for a few, but, mostly everybody just has to do the best they can to hang on.. like federal aid or the national guard---jesus is coming!

hang on!

jesus is coming!.

Doug Mason

Terry,

Further to my previous post, I have provided scans of pages from that author on the origins of the NT, which I feel is relevant to your concerns, is available at:

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=ce1c272b0bb9756988771969da279955

Wait 20 seconds for the "Download" button to appear.

If they don't help, please accept my apologies.

Doug

14

JWs... You are not unique! take a look at this. My research

by Aussie Oz in

in my research i have decided to go waaaay back.

so, one of the first things i did was look at the beginnings with regard to charles taze russell.. while this may be old news to many, this is indeed new to me.

and i want to tell this to the jws that are no doubt on here too.. you are an adventist sect.. without posting the expanded (very long) version of my research, i will post the basics that lead me to this conclusion.. how unique are jehovahs witnesses?

Doug Mason

Aussie Oz,

Although Rutherford is named in CTR's will only as a possible substitute on the Editorial Committee, Rutherford took control of the organisation through physical force and dubious legal manipulation.

Whereas the original organisation was democratic, Rutherford was adamant, while in prison awaiting the outcome of the voting, that he would never be held subject to the whims of the voting membership. We well know how Rutherford turned over the democratic process into his "theocracy".

It might be of interest to pursue the fates of the people who actually were named in CTR's will. When CTR died, the organisation broke up into innumerable splinter groups. An OCR of CTR's will is available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/WILL_AND_TESTAMENT_OF_CHARLES_TAZE_RUSSELL.pdf

As far as the SDAs are concerned, they were held to be on the outer of the 19th century Advent groups because they were under the control of a self-proclaimed prophet, and officially they did not keep on setting dates.

Doug

39

Tell me why MY VIEW of Christianity is wrong

by Terry in

i sometimes think the standard christian view of things is this.. mankind, like the people in new orleans after hurricane katrina, are stranded waiting on aid and god flys over and sees them on the roof waving and holding up signs, but, he can't really do as much as he would like to.. he has some stopgap aid here and there for a few, but, mostly everybody just has to do the best they can to hang on.. like federal aid or the national guard---jesus is coming!

hang on!

jesus is coming!.

Doug Mason

Terry,

The following words are a compilation taken from several pages in a book on the construction of the NT. I hope you find this relevant. The book was written by a professed deeply committed Christian

Doug

---------------------------

The earliest Christians, all of whom were Jews seeking to interpret the power they had found in the life of Jesus, feverishly explored the sacred writings of their people, searching for a way not only to understand what the sources of his power were, but also, and more importantly, to make sense out of the fact that the one in whom they believed they had experienced the meaning of God had actually been executed on a cross.

As they processed this internal debate, they found consolation and affirmation in their sacred writings, so that these writings began to shape their memory of Jesus. They fitted his life into this emerging scriptural portrait. Far from Jesus fulfilling the expectations of the people of Israel for a messiah who was to come in some programmed way, they simply told the story of Jesus so that he fitted into this scriptural pattern.

Of course, Jesus could be seen magically to have fulfilled the scriptures if the early Christians began with those scriptures and forced their memory of Jesus to fit those expectations. It was particularly easy to do this since there were no eyewitnesses. The Jesus story could be created out of scriptural whole cloth.

The Jesus experience was real. However, the gospels' explanation of that experience, even the explanation of his death, was anything but remembered history.

A magical view of the gospels was developed which asserted that instead of the Hebrew stories shaping the Jesus story, the events of Jesus' life simply fulfilled biblical expectations and prophecies in some miraculous and preordained way. Jesus, however, did not live out the prophetic expectations. Indeed, this bizarre and false idea has served to hide from us the fact that the Jesus story was actually composed with the Hebrew scriptures open and the memory of Jesus was actually adapted to conform to biblical expectations. In the process both history and objectivity were compromised.

What was there about Jesus of Nazareth that caused his earliest followers to wrap the sacred history of their Jewish past around him and to expand the stories of their religious heroes until they were big enough to communicate what it was that they experienced in this Jesus?

28

The most frightening time in this Worlds History!

by wannabe in

does the bible supply us with any information, that might give us, at least, some idea when this frightening time period will begin?does it show us, in some way, just how frightening this time period will be, and just what is the main cause of it?

" [matthew 24:8 niv}.

what was it that actually marked the beginning of these birth pangs?

Doug Mason

Zarco,

You're spot on - just imagine what it would be like if one-third of the population of Europe and England were being killed today, as happened during the plague.

And what about the barbaric methods that were used at that time, such as locking families in their houses when one member showed signs of illness and carting bodies through the streets.

Doug

3

Contradiction in scripture and equality

by iMARX in

okay so i've just found a scripture that totally condraticts what the jws preach and also a lot of equality laws.. proverbs 22:29 talks about if a man is skilled enough in his trade then he will no longer need to slave for the common people, he can serve kings.. so the bible is telling jws and christians to pursue their secular work and time so they need no longer "slave" for the working classes.

not only does this reinforce capitalism but it also goes against putting jehovah first and his workship.. i don't get it!!!.

i thought jws were supposed to treat everyone the same.

Doug Mason

iMARX,

The author was writing to his/her own community, not to any other. It is difficult to translate from one language to another, but it is far far more difficult to translate from one culture to another. We need to ask questions such as:

When was that Proverb written?

What were the prevailing community standards at that time?

What were the political (secular and religious) conditions at the time?

Each Bible writer was addressing their own immediate community, reflecting their contemporary views and attitudes. All we may do is distill a principle that is applicable to our own contemporary conditions and ensure we do not try to transport every nuance or idiom from them into our own. In other words, we must read their words through their eyes, not through the eyes of a 21st century person.

Whereas virtually all OT prophets were of the priestly class, which were associated with the royal household when it existed, Jesus was from the country, where people were illiterate, and he spoke to them using their imagery and their values. Jesus' ministry was more like that of Jeremiah's, who also was not from the main city, and who too spoke harsh things against the ruling priests.

Doug

BTW. I have never been a JW.

13

The two stories of "The Flood"

by Doug Mason in

in genesis, the two stories of "the flood" have been combined into one.. each story was created by separate groups for their own theological purpose, and with very different attitudes towards god.. i have provided a scan from a book that untangles these two accounts.

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=160b02654b38df6311d38f4932294874.

you need to wait for 20 seconds before the "download" button appears.. doug.

Doug Mason

Blue Grass,

Since I try to survive on the Old Age Pension, I sympathise with your pain at the cost of buying the book. But I can assure you that it is great reading, almost like a detective story, as the author provides clues while he make a case for identifying the people responsible for writing the Scripture.

As I indicate in my post 901 above, I will soon start a thread dealing with the Jewishness of the Gospels. When I do present that thread, I will be referring to books that threaten, challenge and disturb, so I reckon your money will be safe in your pocket.

Doug

13

The two stories of "The Flood"

by Doug Mason in

in genesis, the two stories of "the flood" have been combined into one.. each story was created by separate groups for their own theological purpose, and with very different attitudes towards god.. i have provided a scan from a book that untangles these two accounts.

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=160b02654b38df6311d38f4932294874.

you need to wait for 20 seconds before the "download" button appears.. doug.

Doug Mason

cyberjesus,

Sorry, but I don't have a pdf of the book.

Do you know how to scan your own book as a pdf? I use Acrobat Writer to produce these scans.

Doug